right now the judge is reading the charges after mr. cohen told the court, i am truly sorry and i promises to do better. he apologize nod country. and the defense team is asking for full consideration of mercy and telling the judge that the client came forward to offer evidence against the most p powerful man in the country not knowing the result. the prosecutors are responding forcefully and saying that powerful and privileged individuals cannot violate laws without impunity, and back with me, this tremendous panel, danny cevallos, ken delainian, and elliott and jill winebank. and jill, what do you make of what we have heard so far in this robust apology that we have heard from michael cohen saying that he was acting out of blind loyalty to donald trump. >> of course, the phrase blind loyalty to donald trump reminds

me of the book by john dean "blind ambition" and there is some similarity between the two of them where they were basically blinded by the power of the president. but you can only explain so much through blind loyalty. you can explain what he did to pay off two women to get donald trump elected and also why he went to ukraine, and we still don't know if he did, but explain some of it, but you can't explain the tax fraud, and you can't explain some of the sta state-related crimes, and you not explain what he is charged with in the southern district of new york. >> danny, i want to go the you now. and let's just reset where we are, and what we are expecting in terms of this sentencing today. mi michael cohen asking for leniency, and his defense team

is asking for mercy. do you expect that the judge is going to grant that, and what are the options today, danny? >> michael cohen's team has asked for a straight probation s sentence and no incarceration. meanwhile, the special counsel's office has filed a memorandum saying that he assisted us and helped out, and he did not rise to the level of what we call substantial assistance and the district of new york on the other hand filed what you could call a more scathing memorandum and saying that michael cohen did not provide a substantial assistance and did not cooperate as that term is use and so he is not going to be getting a substantial assistance motion. and so it is not the guideline range of 51 to 63 month, and instead, even the government is on board with a sentence in the 42-month area. michael cohen's attorneys have asked for no incarceration at all. as a defense attorney, i

sympathize with them. often a client comes to the attorney and says, i am paying you all of this money and you better fight to get me zero time in jail, and the attorneys have to make that shoot the moon type argument that long shot argument for no jail time when the more realistic argument is probably something in the range of 20 to 40 months, at a least statistically. and so that is probably what we can expect in the reasonable range given the national downward trend of sentences for similarly situated defendants. >> elliott, let me bring you in now, and reflect if you would on with what we have heard so far from inside of that courtroom. and again, this is from wnbc's jonathan dienst and these are not exact quotes, but i want to read a few more for the viewers to give them a sense of the tone of the comment s ths that he ma daimt he said that i blame myself for the conduct that has

brought me here. blind loyalty to that man. then he names donald trump, a blind loyalty to donald trump. he says, that is what led him to choose darkness over light. and love of my wife, son and daughter. he says is the key focus right now urgs and he is talking about the undeserved pain and shame on his family, and again, these are p powerful words, and as we have been discussing the judge is going to likely determine that there does need to be some level of a jail sentence, and what are you anticipating, and do you think that we have learned anything new factually today, elliott? >> doesn't sound like it. we would have heard about it, and respond to the blind loyalty part, because to this, it is silly. because he saying that it is blind loyalty that led him to do it, but it is his connections to donald trump that enriched him and holding out to other people that he had proximity to the president of the united states or the president of the united states that got him richer --

>> sorry to interrupt you and quickly, we are hearing that he was sentenced. michael cohen, the president 's former attorney and personal fixer was sentenced to 36 months of prison time. danny cevallos, let me have you respond to this breaking news. again, he is is responded to 36 month, and we don't have -- but elliott, 36 months. >> so the probation department recommended 42 months, and that is a substantial sentence, because he going to jail for three year, and the judge clearly considered and this is the point that i was making in spite of his loyalty to trump having led him to do these bad acts, he benefited tremendously from his proximity to the president, and from his proximity to power and all across, and you know, between the president of the united states frankly, mr. cohen and a number of these individuals connected to this, and that is all about ambition and greed and lying to enrich one's self and lying to get one's self ahead is

going to bite you and a get you locked up for a long time. so let's not understate the fact that he is going to jail for a bunch of time, and 36 months does not sound like a lot of time in people's heads, but thinking about this, this is the president's fixer, and the most inner circle person of the inner circle and he is going for a substantial prison time. and yes, they did consider the arguments of the government, and maybe sh, you know, knocked off few months on the basis of his beautiful heart felt tale, but attend of t at at the end of the day, he broke the law and he is going to pay for it. >> and danny cevallos, we have is the answer, the judge sentencing michael cohen, the president's former personal fixer to 36 month, and what do you make of that as a substantial sentence as elliott was just pointing out to us. >> 36 months is the national median for similarly situated

defendants like cohen, and so it is probably that the judge is aware of the national median for similarly situated defendants. the average is below the sentencing guideline range of 51 to 63 months and even below the 42 months recommended by the united states probation department. and then when the government filed the sentencing memorandum, it basically left the door open for a slightly lower sentence than 42, so 36 is right in the expected range, and not a big surprise, but still, as elliott says, a significant amount of timer for someone like cohen with no criminal history to be spending behind bars. >> and tom winter is standing by for us. tom, with what do y tom, what do you make of this breaking news of michael cohen

sentenced to 36 months? >> yes. >> and, tom is apparently having trouble hearing us, so we will go back to danny cevallos, and danny, very quickly, we have a few seconds and then we are going to be getting to tom. what is the mood out there at the courthouse? >> there is definitely a buzz and you can tell that something is about to happen, because people have started to take notice, and so whether or not some of the parties, the government attorneys or someone may be exiting the courthouse. >> he was seen breaking down several times speaking to judge pauley speaking about the family. he said that today is the first day of his are freedom, afreedo been incarcerated since the

fir first day of mr. trump and respected him for the real estate and business accumen, but it is a decision that he regrets. the judge said that as much as he appreciated the cooperation that somewhere along the way he lost the moral compass, and he has been sentenced to 36 months in prison and in addition two months in prison to the lies in congress. and so the 36 months have to do with the false statements to the bank, and also tied to campaign donation and for lying to congress he got two additional months, but they are concurrently, and that means that he will be serving them at the same time, and so it is three years for michael cohen, and in addition to that, he has some bills to pay, and you have a $500 forfeiture and that is $1.93 million in back taxes as well as three years of

supervised, and so it is a heavile toheavy toll on michael cohen, and the judge felt that the crimes that he plead guilty to, he needed to set a sentence that sufficiently deterred those crimes. and that is where we stand outside of court here. waiting for michael cohen to be departing shortly and we will wait to hear whether he is remanded to jail, but it is not, and he will be likely to be give anne date in the future to report the prison. >> thank you, tom, for reporting outside of the courthouse, and we will have to wait and see if he says anything once he does leave court. and danny cevallos, thank you for your tremendous reporting beforehand. i want to hand off to my colleague andrea mitchell who is joining me here in washington. and andrea, significant news within the russia investigation, but within this broader investigation of michael cohen

with implications for the president, and former personal attorney sentenced to 36 months behind bars. >> and it is going to be harder given what the judge said in court, and hard forewhite house and the judge to say it is a minor civil thing, because this is not some minor civil thing, and these are femalonies and ta evasion, and campaign finance violation, and the judge incorporating that from the new york sentencing, and the presentencing documents, and that is going to have soming weight. thank you so much, kristen welker, for the breaking news, and joining us now is msnbc legal analyst and attorney for the suffolk district of new york, mimi rocah and ken delainian as well. and so what do you think about what the sentence is and what the judge said? >> yes, cohen got a sentence that many of us predicted because of what he was facing and the fact that he would and should get some credit for the

cooperation that he did provide, ale though he did not get as much credit as he perhaps would have wished for, because he did not full-on cooperate with the southern district of new york, but i think that the interesting thing to come out of the sentencing is what the judge said. granted, i was not in the courtroom and i have not heard all of them but what i have been following on twitter and interesting to hear more deill tas, the judge found that michael cohen's crime was quote sophisticated. in other words, that is a term of art in the sentencing guidelines and there a sophisticated enhance mement th can be applied and the government proposed it should apply here sh, and the judge fo that it did. i believe that refers to in part not just the fact that it was a campaign finance crime, but the fact that the way in which it was with done. they set up shell company, and

tried to reimburse the company through michael cohen and call it a retainer with michael cohen, and so there is a lot of deception, and judge pauley used that word in describing his crimes as well, deception. so what this does is to put a big fat x through donald trump's assertions that these are minor process crimes, and, you know, civil, and should only be held responsible civilly, and this is a complete corruption of our federal election system, and it was done in the biggest campaign finance donation probably in our history in the sense of how meaningful it was, because it really changed the whole, and there is a very good argument that changed the whole tone of where this election was going when trump silenced these women from coming out with these stories stories. >> and outside of the court, danny cevallos, and dan goldman both. dan, you were inside, and your

take away from what the judge said following up on what mimi rocah just said. >> yes, mimi is absolutely right. i think that judge pauley made a point of not only emphasizing the campaign finance and false statements to congress which do rel relate to the president, but was also particularly moved by michael cohen's commission of the crime for his own personal b benefit. referencing the fact that he had committed the tax fraud and the bank fraud. michael cohen spoke for a while in court and longer than most defendants do. and he emphasized the fact that he committed many of these crimes from what he called blind loyalty to the president. in the end, the judge, judge pauley recognized that only two of the groups of crimes really did relate to the president, and he sentenced him quite harshly in large part he found that cohen's criminal activity

expanded beyond what cohen recognized. so it was interesting and relatively lengthy hearing, andrea, where michael cohen's attorney guy petrullo asked for leniency and unusual case in light of the national attention and that michael cohen chose not to cooperate merely so he could get on with his life, and that he had received threats to both him and his family, and that this, he had made extensive efforts to cooperate with the special counsel's office, and he cast some aspersions on the south district's memo which he called quite strident and he castigated the southern district in some respects quite poignantly even though he had worked there twice before including the chief of the criminal division, and so he was quite upset about that, but the southern district sort of rebutted that by saying, look,

this is how cooperation works here, and we treated him like we treat every other defendant, and he chose not to coop ratet for whatever reason, but he should not get the benefit of cooperation. and the other thread that goes through this as well is michael cohen made the point that he really wanted to get on with his life, and that is why he kept this sentencing date. but what i think that underscored part of judge pauley's sentence of three years is that he could only give him credit for whatever cooperation he has provided thus far, and that does not include any information that led to any charges, and it does not include any testimony from michael cohen, and so in the grand scheme of cooperation in these case, it is actually not that much cooperation. so he did give him some credit, but it did not get down to probation. >> and before i ask danny cevallos to weigh in here, and you are in the -- you were not in the courtroom, but this fine of $55,000 if you can it is

straight, and $50,000, i think that it is for lying to congress. and now, this was the mueller piece of it. and what about his cooperation with mueller, because they had a different presentencing memo, and did he get credit for that? >> he ended upt getting 36 months down from the bottom guidelines of 51 months and this is because of the cooperation of the special counsel's office, and yet in guideline range of up to six months he got two months. so he is not going to be having more prison time, because it will be concurrent time. but the judge made a point of stressing how awful it is that michael cohen lied to congress. he pointed out that he needed what is specific deterrence, and not just to deter other people from doing this in the future which is general deterrence, but that michael cohen needed his own deterrence to not do it

again, and as to the fine, he levied a fine of $50,000 on each case and is a total of $100,000, and he emphasized that the guideline range for lying to congress does not adequately represent the harm of doing so. judge pauley was trying to send a message to other people that if you lie to congress, there is going to be consequences. >> danny cevallos, as a former defense lawyer, you have followed these kinds of cases. the other piece of this is that in his admissions before, he indicated they had circulated his lies before to the people in the white house. we don't even know whom, and how close this got to the president or others around him. and so with what about that? >> michael cohen -- i think that the question is how close this got to the president, and is that right? >> exactly. exactly. >> yeah. so we saw in the filings that

this is a case where michael cohen admitted to conduct that had far reaching implications for contact not only with russia but with the white house. that is the false statements charges that he pleaded guilty to and which raised a lot of questions of why have michael cohen if you are the special counsel's office, and why have him come in to plead giuilty toa crime, a single count of false statements to congress, and it is raising the question of what is the special counsel laying the foundation for, and what is the net result of this guilty plea and this sentence, because as dan correctly pointed out, the net effect on his ultimate sentence is virtually nothing. because he is sentenced concurrently, and it is raising the question in the coming weeks of what exactly is going to happen, and why did the special counsel's office lay the foundation, lay down the brick work for what it is going to do in the future with that guilty plea for lying to congress.

>> and it seems that ken delainian, that both mueller and this judge today, they are make it very clear in everything that we have seen so far that lying to the the fbi and the flynn case and lying to congress and lying to the the pros ecutors i a cardinal sin as far as they are concerned and not just a thing. >> yes, and lying is a theme of the whole russian investigation and lying about russia and to investigators and, andrea, danny made a crucial point, because what did we see when he address addressed the judge, and it is a total break with donald trump. and that is what we knew was the case, but this is profound, my weakness was a blind loyalty to donald trump, and a blind loyalty that led me to choose darkness over light, and we heard from prosecutor genie rhea that they had co-operation that

led to this. and why have him plead guilty to a count of lying to congress, and why do that if not exploring who with else lied to congress. and potentially, did donald trump know and was that story coordinated? but at the same time michael cohen made a pitch to the judge that he should get leniency, because he cooperated against the most powerful man in the world, but that didn't fly, because he did not cooperate with the southern district, and as they pointed out, he held himself h out to be a consultant when donald trump was like a president, and sought to earn millions of dollars from companies who wanted access to donald trump. so he sought to profit from trump and other than just doing the bidding. >> and it was $4 million is the count of the basis there of the income tax evasion. >> yes. >> and so he was profiting on the connection, until it was clear they had him dead to rites from all of the other evidence,

and he started to make the plea. dan goldman, is that a fair assumption? >> yes, that is right. and judge pauley made a point to emphasize that. and michael cohen did not address his own fraud charges tax evasion, an bad bank fraud statements, but he called it a personal incarceration while he was working for trump, and he said that today is his date of freedom from his own personal and mental incarceration. but to another point, with the message that judge pauley was saying, judge pauley made a point of saying that michael cohen committed the campaign finance fraud in coordination with and at the direction of individual one which is not relevant to michael cohen's sentencing other than he was are recognized that he was direct ed to do it. but it seemed to be a slight dig at president trump for, an

implication that judge pauley believes that president trump, individual one, did direct michael cohen to commit that campaign finance fraud. so we are unpacking a lot of what happen ed in the courthous, andrea, and it was over an hour-long hearing, but it certa certainly, president trump's presence, although he was not there was very much felt. >> and to ken delainian, again, the whole effort by the president to distance himself from everybody around him, manafort, flynn, cohen, and these people were closely connected to him both politically and legally. how sustainable is that effort going forward from what you can tell from the tea leaves of where the special prosecutor is going? >> well, is it is not sustainable in the sense that they all appear to be except for in the case of manafort providing the special counsel with damaging evidence on donald trump.

we have not seen the evidence in public that donald trump or anyone around him conspired with the russians to interer fear with the 2016 election campaign, but in the filings, they lied about it. they lied about the connections with the russians and lied about a trump tower project in moscow on going with the campaign and hidden from is voters and the idea that michael cohen is sentenced to three years in prison, a bind the way, no paro parole. you can be released early for good time, but he is going to do most of that time, and that is underscoring the point that president is talking about a civil matter and no campaign violation, but it utterly refutes that. because it is a serious crime in which the president is implicate and this is on the finance side, and we with don't know what michael cohen has told the special counsel about finance connections, but we know it is a lot. >> and so you can see the family is coming out, and the security guards around there at the federal courthouse. his family, his children, and he is obviously talk g aing about

important they are to him, and this is quite a fall from grace for someone who was so close to candidate donald trump and worked for year s fs for the tr organization, and mimi rocah, as we are watching the doorway here, and any moment, michael cohen is going to be coming out, and we don't know whether he is going to spook or his lawyer will speak for him. obvious ly, nypd is there and this is an extraordinary personal fall for someone who had worked for so long with donald trump. we will see if he is coming close to the microphones. obviously, we are there to wait for any response from michael cohen, but it looks as though, he is being led into the cars that are waiting. no comment so far from michael

cohen today, and we will have to wait and see whether is going to leave a comment, but no. we will have to wait to see whether he has mig anything to say through the attorneys bsh thu is a moment of high draw marks and danny, you and dan goldman are right there, and describe what you have just seen. danny cevallos. >> i don't know who that is for? for me? >> just wondering because you are there near the door, and we oknow that he just came out, and i did not see him get into the car myself, but i think that he has probably left the scene. we saw the security there, and we don't expect to hear now from him or his attorneys at the courthouse at least, correct?

>> that is right. he just walked out and his family went first and they got into the car and he left first and his attorneys followed him and crossed the street where we are standing and saying that they won't make a comment right now. so, there is going to be no comment. i am quite confident that both his attorneys who i worked with in the southern district of new york, and also michael cohen, himself, and the family are quite disappointed with this sentence. it was a somber tone and somber expression they all had as they walked out of the courthouse where michael cohen faces 36 monthses in prison and the surrender date of march 6th, and he can voluntarily surrender to the facility on march 6th unless it is pushed back which is possible if the special counsel's office needs him. >> is he now out on any kind of bail or personal recognizance or what are the legal ramifications of his being able to go home?

>> it is the same conditions, andrea, the same conditions, that he has been out on bail to this point. it will apply to him until he surrenders to prison. >> and mimi rocah, where will he serve in relation to this crime and what has the prosecutor said? >> well, he is going to go to a federal prison, and it is usually they do it sort of the bureau of prisons will have the final word on where he actually serveses the sentence, and they often do it based on the geography to be close to family, but andrea, i wanted to make a point about we were all hoping and interesting to hear michael cohen or his lawyer to say anything, but i am not surprised that they didn't in part, because as dan goldman said, i guess, they are disappointed, but frankly, they should not be surprised at the sentence, because he is being treated exactly like every odefendant in

the southern district of new york, and he did not have a full cooperation agreement and certain areas that we would not go into, and so he does not get the full benefit of cooperation and nor should he, but he has the opportunity to cooperate, and there is a mechanism for that post sentence, and it is smart of them to walk out and not say anything, and now sh, maybe, michael cohen needs to sit down and have another conversation with the lawyer. maybe he thought that he could have it both ways, one foot in the door with the special counsel and still get the full benefit of cooperation with the judge, and that is not the way it works here. and maybe now sh, he is going te coming to terms with that. he may decide to cooperate fu fully, but nothing has been said that he is truthful. it is not a matter of someone who has lied, but it is a matter of someone who did not want to talk about certain areas, and as a defendant who wants to

cooperate in the southern district, you don't get to draw the lines and so it is wise that he didn't say anything, and maybe michael cohen needs to go back to think about what and where he is and the reality is. >> i don't know how relevant this is, because it is not clear if lanny davis has been involved and he is out of the picture after misstating a number of things in the case, but he is at least issuing a statement saying that he finds it unfortunate that the southern district new york prosecutors did not do what the mueller team do in giving michael significant credit for cooperation on the core issue, and to me, he says, their judgment showed a lack of appropriate proportionality and i don't know what you think about that, mimi, but you don't think it is terribly relevant, i would guess. >> well, it is not particularly relevant and a lanny davis may not understand how cooperation wo works in the southern district

of new york, and it is all or nothing. and it is not that, well sh, hes truthful on x and won't talk about y and we will give you credit. that is not how it works and guy petrullo knows that better than anybody, because he was chief, and he imposed that rule, and it has been that way for decades, and it is frighten iing to the defendants who come in, and we know about certain thing, but we have to know everything that you did, and it is going to feel like facing more time, but over the decades of experience in the southern district in new york, the people who have come clean, and truly wiped the slate clean and sold the southern district everything, those are the people who have done much better in terms of the sentencing and end up doing little to no jail time. it is not a promise, but that is the way it is working historically. and so, you know, lanny davis, you know, he is trying the make excuse, and he is trying to poke holes in it, but again i go back to the idea that michael cohen is not being treated any differently than any other defendant and nor should he be,

so he has toette anotherer cooperate like other coprators or going to jail. >> and nbc news investigations reporter tom winter was inside of the courthouse, and he broke down several times while addressing the judge and tell us what it was like. >> well, andrea, this was a interesting because he came into the court shortly before 10:20 and we were not scheduled to start until 11:00 5, and we did start early which is unusual. a and he came in wearing a black coat, and pinstriped shirt and blue tie, and he was as we all assume that he would try to keep it light before the proceedings, but the enormity and he broke down three separate times it appeared while he was speaking and centering around the family. the family was there today and as my colleague hannah rapley pointed out, after the sentencing and once it was known that he was going to jail for three years, a number of the family members broke down d

crying, and his daughter who was sitting behind him after he was addressed sobbed after learning a that he would go to jail for three years. and his attorneys had argued that he should be sentenced to time serve and the time that it took for him to be booked and the charges that he plead guilty to, but judge pauley today saying that these were serious crime, and that they were crimes that the deserved a sentence of three years as you were reporting. it is interesting that michael cohen said that he had been in a quote mental and personal incarceration since the day he met president trump, and the today would be his first day of freedom. he acknowledge had the president has called him weak in the tweets and he said that he was weak, and it is that weakness that led him to cover up for some of the president's deeds as he put it. and so today, he is acknowledging the enormity of

what he has plead guilty to, and the judge sentencing him to crimes that were serious crimes and crimes against the public. one other thing, andrea, michael cohen apologize nod the people of the united states, and apologized for his lack of candor in the investigations and in his lies for which he plead guilty to, of course. so kind of an extraordinary day, and pretty incredible fall of, fall from grace, and this is somebody who is obviously one tof the president's most prominent surrogates, and somebody who spoke very highly of him, and he noted that his loyalty to the president today as he has in other proceedings before today, and so i think that for somebody here in the scope of less than a year going from somebody who might be under investigation to somebody who has plead guilty to in total the ti niity nine char provided cooperation to the special counsel's office, and so three years of imprisonment is a

significant moment here in manhattan. >> and peter alexander in washington, any mood or tweeting or what anybody is saying is about michael cohen? >> good question, and i will speak right now, because i can see the marine guard is still outside of the west wing which means that the president has moved from the residence to the west wing. he arrived here at about noon, and so about 35 minutes a ago and even before we knew that the sentence that michael cohen would face. and the president obviously, he has been fierce in the criticism of cohen, and describing him on twitter as very weak, and something that cohen addressed in the courtroom today and saying that the president was right in calling him weak, but not for the reason that the president was implying and cohen saying that i was weak because time and time again, i felt that it was my duty to cover up his dirty deeds. we did hear from president trump preemptively addressing this sentencing, this entire topic yesterday in a conversation with my colleagues from reuters where the president has slammed cohen

for cooperating with the prosecutors and the lawyer is telling lies to bid for a lighter term, and he said that his attorney, his former attorney, michael cohen, he should have known about the finance campaign law, and specifically, michael cohen is a lawyer and i would assume that he would know what he is doing, and he added number one about the hush money payments and it is not a campaign contribution and if it were, it is obl civnl civil, and if it is civil, then it is okay on what we did. that is part of the conversation with reuters, but to pull back the curtain, and to remind you where we got here, andrea, the president initially denied knowing anything about the payments before later acknowledging them. and then within the last several days, he has now tried to argue in effect that this is a simple and private transaction and it was not anything that would have violated the campaign finance laws, andrea. >> and in fact, it is not civil. it is a felony. and also, in fact, the tax

evasion piece of it, which does not involve the president in any way that we know, that is a very sophisticated tax evasion count. so which the judge was saying in court today. thank you, peter alexander. >> and if i may. >> please? >> and excuse for one second because i have spoke and i am joining in the conversation, but i hung up the phone with lanny davis who is an adviser with michael cohen in the last few minutes. >> and we read his statement. >> perfect, fine. >> and what mimi rocah said about the statement that he does not understand what the southern district works -- >> and sorry to interrupt, but to say what is most important is that he has cast michael cohen's as this generation's john dean, the former white house counsel who testified before congress about richard nixon saying at the same time that michael cohen is is going to be before a congressional committee on national television and he going to be telling the truth about donald trump. >> and the problem is that he did testify before congress and according to the mueller team he

lied about those conversations. >> he lied. >> and so john dean didn't lie. i am just saying. peter, standby a second, because pete williams is going to weigh in from the news bureau. and pete, you have been watching ul of this >>. yes, a couple of things march 6th is the date that he must report to federal prison, and it is up to the federal bureau of prisons and part of the justice department to decide which prison that would be, but defense lawyers typically ask the judge to recommend a facility, and the one they are recommending is a federal correctional institute prison otisville, new york, which has a medium and minimum security so-called prison camp is what it is called in the federal system, and the latter, the prison camp they are asking the judge to give his recommendation, but again, it is up to the bureau of prisons the decide where he is going to go on march 6th, and so

he is going to remain out on bond until then, and by then, we will know where it is going to p b. and a couple of things, andrea, and first of all, in terms of the discussion about this campaign finance thing, it is well, i think that it is well to remind ourselves what this is all about. and so this is hush money payments to these two women who claim they had an affair with president trump, with donald trump, and there is nothing illegal about that. and paying hush money is not illegal. and what he pleaded guilty to though is was violating campaign finance laws in two ways. what the government says and what he has admitted is that these were payments intended to keep these stories out of the campaign, therefore, the government says, these were campaign contributions. and they were illegal in two ways. one of them was a payment from cohen himself, and because it violated the amount that you can give to a candidate, and it was over the limit, that was

illegal, and so that is the first count that he pleaded guilty to, and the second one, the other payment was from the publisher publishers of the the "national enquirer" american media and a federal law that says that corporations cannot directly give money to candidate's campaigns and they can buy ads and u support, but they can't give money no the campaign and this is the second violation, and oso those are the two chargs that he plead guilty to in addition ono the basically evading the taxes on more than $4 million in income over four years between 2012-2016, and falsely claiming, giving a false picture of his finances in order to get a loan. so those are the charges that he pleaded guilty to, and it is those offenses that formed the core of this three-year sente e

sentence. the other thing that he pleaded guilty to is about lying to congress about when the work stopped on trying to get trump tower in moscow, and he said it stopped in january and now he says it kept going until july, and that is the special counsel charge, and on that the mueller team said, we think that he has been cooperative and they had a different view of the nature of the offense and the level of his cooperation so that, the ma majority of the guts of this will be served. >> and two months on the mueller probe, and chuck is with us now. and chuck, it is very clear that there is a disconnect between what the southern district's view is of his cooperation is and the mueller team. i am intrigued by the mueller team's view of him. could he continue to be useful to them? is there anything that he can do to ameliorate his situation by p providing more information or has he given them everything that he has got?

what is the take? >> well, actually, yes. there sis a rule of federal procedure that permits someone who has been already sentenced and previous ly cooperate odd t provide more cooperation. now it is rare, andrea, and very rare for anybody to get cooperation on both sides of the sentencing, but it can happen. and so if there is stuff that he has not told them or if they have more questions, conceivably, yes, and most likely, he is going to be serving 85% of the 36 months. and you can get some time off for the good time, and is some credit, but the sentence is probably going to be what you saw today. >> and chuck, do you think that mue mueller already knows what exactly whom he talked to in the white house when he was circulated the false testimony before he testified to congress and how high up it went, and how much inside of the white house, and the inner circle around donald trump if not donald trump, himself, do you think that mueller is aware of? >> i presume that mueller knows

just about everything. i have said that he is a an olympic swimmer and we are dog paddling, and he knows that obviously not only the false testimony was circulateed on what saw it, and how would he know that? almost inevitably an electronic record of that and who resieve -- received the e-mails and who opened them, and that is my presumption that bob mueller knows. >> and dan goldman, you had some thoughts about the different defense counsels, and by the way, lanny davis has pointed out at the bottom of the statement said that he is no longer now that michael cohen has been sentenced, no longer acting as an attorney, but communications advi adviser, and pete alexander said that he is a john dean kind of character, and think they is wishful thinking if you want to try to create that atmosphere, but john dean actually he did not have a lot of support from all of the fellow conspirators inside of the with white house in the nixon team.

dann danny? >> that is right. and just to piggyback on lanny davis' comments. i agree with what mimi said earlier with you that i don't believe that lanny davis fully understands the cooperation process, but guy petrullo absolutely does. he made a comment in court today and he made several comments critical of the southern district process and at one point he said facetiously about the cooperation process that the southern district uses that it has been given to us by the minor gods and woe to those who fail to follow the scriptures and so he was quite harsh in what he said, and he later said that he thought that it was notable that a sibling office of the department of justice, and meaning the special counsel's office and he called it curious that they were vouching for his cooperation, and he said that it is fundamentally unfair to put forth hypothetical situations

where michael cohen was not being forth coming without specifying what he wasn't forth coming about. and so it is not just lanny davis who is taking issue with the southern district, but it is also guy petrullo who worked there on two stints and worked in an executive capacity and quite upset about the strident tone of the southern district m memo and upset with how they characterized his willingness to coo coooperate and here we are now with the three-year sentence. >> and phil rucker, the washington bureau chief, and white house bur rerow chief for the "washington post" and someone who knows michael cohen and has covered donald trump so we well. what are you -- what do you take from this and what the president said to the reuters last night, and distancing himself, and trying to distance himself from what happened to cohen and all of the criticism that the president has leveled against cohen in comparison to say manafort and some of the others? >> well, andrea, this is a pretty extraordinary moment in

the saga that we have been covering because of all of the characters who have pleaded guilty and who face jail time and ensnared in some way or another in all of the investigations, and michael cohen is the one with the longest and the most intimate relationship with donald trump, and he has been the personal attorney and fixer for years and he is part of the political nucleus pre-candidate trump before he decided to run for offic office, and he was involved in the campaign and all over cable television through the 2016 general election as a surrogate and advocate for president trump, and he thought that he would be following donald trump into the white house with the big job in the white house. and of course, he did not get that job, but this is a man who knows the president intimately, and knows the workings and the dealings and he is now becoming convicted. and he going to be facing jail time for what he did for donald trump. it is donald trump who ordered him to make those hush money payments that were illegal, according to the testimony of michael cohen and according to the findings of the government of trump's own justice

department. >> phil, how does the white house handle this? they don't, they have a white house counsel who has just come on board and he doesn't have a team team, and no chief of staff, and you have a lame duck in john kelly, but no one else has been chosen and he has been turned down by nick ayers who is the front-runner forer that job. is this white house prepared for what is about to hit them and what is hitting them today? >> i would say they are not prepared, but they are, i think waiting to get some cues from the president. if this follows the pattern that we have seen through these other crises over the past few months, they will wait for president trump to set the direction and the tone and decide how the engage and how the respond, and i assume some tweets from are the president, and maybe some public statements later this afternoon. and you know, the political operative operatives in the white house, and sarah sanders and those types have tried to refrain from weigh i weighing in on some of the legal developments, and preferring to let the president's outside attorneys rudy giuliani and ray

sekulow weigh in on that, but the president has been engaged and following this and i assume that we will hear from him soon. >> and joining us is william cohen, a former attorney for president clinton and one of 44 lawyers who said that the senate needs to show some leadership. secretary cohen, thank you for being with us, an amazing moment, and i want to ask you about this and also in the context of you as a house member, a house republican, a freshman on the judiciary committee, and where you were a key vote for the impeach mement richard nixon. how much pressure is this going to be putting on the democrats in the incoming house of representatives to do something more than just start investigati investigating? >> well, i think that they have to wait until the mueller report comes out, and then 3wi8d on that if necessary, but i wanted to make a comment, that this listening to what is taking place this past hour.

it is sort of deja vu all over again. you are recall that john dean to be sure about the blind loyalty, but you remember the testimony given by jeb mcgruder to the judge, and he said, your honor, i lost my moral compass, and now i have to look into the eyes of my wife and see their pain and the confusion of my children and the contempt of my fellow countrymen and america will survive per jeb mcgruder and so we are back to people losing their moral compass. this is a word of warning for those serving the current administration, president trump. you must be loyal not to the man, but to the country and to the truth. i recall very vividly when gerald ford came before the house judiciary committee for the 25th amendment, and i asked him a question that he had made the speech five years earlier,

and he said without truth in government, there can be no confidence in government. without confidence in government, the nation is in great peril, and those words are just as important today as they were of us felt so strongly. we are seeing something very different than has ever happened in the past before. there's been partisanship, to be sure. but there's also been a respect to the institution that we have an obligation to be loyal to the truth. loyal to the people. and never to break that loyalty. and exchange for favors from a president or from any private or corporate citizen as such. so i think there's a genuine feeling on the part of those who have departed public service that we're descending into something that's approaching not a democracy but an autocracy. secretary albright as written on

this, what a fascist government looks like, the road to tyranny by timothy schneider and others. we are seeing the attack upon the media as a key element of dictators like to first pursue. attack upon our justice system, attack upon our intelligence community and so this is the breakdown of respect for the rule of law. and for the truth. and that is something that is fundamental to what's going on now with mr. mueller's investigation in terms of all of those surrounding the president, a word of warning, make sure you're loyal to the country and to the office of the president, not to the person who's occupying it. there's a big difference between the two. and i hope those who are serving in public office today, serving the president remember there's a penalty to pay and a very heavy one if you lie, if you simply are blindly loyal, without regard to the consequences and you will face the same kind of

consequence that mr. cohen did today and general flynn has, as well, although not to the severity since he is not going to jail in all probability. >> secretary cohen, your warning is so compelling and the sound of alarm. i wanted to just play something that lindsay graham just said on capitol hill. >> any time a former lawyer of yours goes to jail is probably not a good day but i have yet to see evidence of collusion and that's the -- what started the mueller investigation to begin with. >> so the president's men on the hill are still defending him. he said to reuters last night, it's hard to impeach somebody who hasn't done anything wrong and who created the greatest economy in the history of our country. i think people would revolt if that happened. >> number one, i think he's

sending a signal to the base to be prepared to take to the streets if there is any effort to remove him for violating the constitution. remember this. the president has an obligation to defend and to protect the constitution. now, while the president is raising the question about funding that wall, based on false premises, false allegations, i want to know why he hasn't raised the same kind of concern for the attack made by president putin who fired digital bullets at the heart of our democracy. i want the know why there's not as much concern for a wall against those attacks, against those invasions, those intrusions that carry poison bullets or poison darts to the heart of our system. that's the concern that i have. and i would say that i'm suspecting that mr. mueller has much more information about all of the allegations surrounding the relationship between those in the trump administration including the president in terms

of what do they have on him? why has it been no disclosure of tax returns over 20 years? how much russian money is in the trump real estate business? how much money if any was washed in terms of going through these real estate deals? i think that is where the mueller investigation is looking. i know that the germans are looking at deutsche banc. i suspect that the house intelligence committee is going to start investigating deutsche banc and perhaps those in cyprus to say that's where the real criminality would be involved where you would fail to criticize the president of russia, who has engaged in heinous activities including murdering people, and yet, not a word of criticism. there's something more that we're not seeing. in shakespeare's "richard iii" the king said my kingdom for a horse.

will we have my country for a hotel? i don't think the president would do that but i think it's much more than a hotel involved. i think there's much more to be looked at an scrutinized in terms of what dealings have the trump family had with the russians over the years that would put the president in the position of not criticizing the russians, really taking a knee before president putin while criticizing colin kaepernick for taking a nieknee to protest. whether those on the hill see it now, i'm confident that they will see it later. >> are you still a republican? >> i am but i'm kind of a george herbert walker bush republican. a howard baker republican. a chuck hagel republican. al simpson republican. those are the republicans that i associate with. >> william cohen, thank you so much for being with us.

>> a pleasure. >> speaking of george w. bush, republicans, jordan, a former aide in the bush white house and an analyst, this is a critical moment. those 44 senators are saying something. william cohen said something just now. this is an alarm bell for the country. >> i want to echo what the secretary said. those are the republicans that i see as the tradition of the republican party that i hope that it will fall back into after this horrible era. it is absolutely breath taking to consider that as recently as june of this year michael cohen was a deputy finance chair of the republican national committee. and his fellow chair steve winn, eliot brody are not chairs of the committee but what a quick fall from grace for someone so close to donald trump and donald trump can try to denigrate

michael cohen as weak, as someone who betrayed him but at the end of the day it is very telling that these are the kind of individuals whom donald trump associates himself with. >> and, chuck rosenberg is still here with me. this is not the end of the road. i mean, this -- from every indication, from all of the hints, the clues that mueller has been dropping along the way in these sentencing reports, we have got a long way to go. >> i think that's right. in fact, if you just look at the thing you can't read, all of the redacted portions of the memos filed -- >> michael flynn memos. >> that's right. there's more out there. anything that's sensitive can't be public and won't include sensitive information and you are right. there's more stuff out there. may i just add one reflection? i was a prosecutor. i loved being a prosecutor and loved trials and conviction.

in hollywood, only in hollywood, do you see evil defendants. in real life you see michael cohens, people reckless and greedy and amoral. but i don't think most prosecutors celebrate the day that someone goes to jail. does he deserve it? absolutely. no question about it. make no mistake about it. but it's never a happy day. >> ken, we have more to come. just this week alone maria butina, a russian agent, unregistered agent, not a spy, coming up this week. we have yet to hear from manafort and flynn. >> that's right. butina will be sentenced tomorrow if all goes as scheduled but i want to go back to the anger and eloquence of secretary cohen and the echos of watergate. he mentioned john dean. john dean was afraid he wouldn't be believed until the white house taping system emerged and everything he said is confirmed. michael cohen has tapes.

we don't know to what extent they portray the president. he was speaking intimately with the president of payoffs to women. we haven't heard the last of michael cohen. he is going off to prison but the statement by lanny davis that he -- michael cohen will be an important witness in the congressional investigations to unravel what happened with russian election interference, i think is really significant, because cohen was an intimate of donald trump for years. if there was a russia conspiracy it stands to reason that cohen would know about it. he would also know if there wasn't a russian conspiracy, he would know why so many trump people affiliated with trump lied about their contacts with russians. what were the conversations around that whole saga? cohen was there. cohen was a witness to history and while he lied to congress, he doesn't seem to have lied to ru robert mueller. i think we haven't seen the last of michael cohen, andrea. >> my thanks to you, ken. to danny, dan, to mimi, chuck

here and, of course, secretary cohen and phil. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow the show online, on facebook, at twitter. here's ali velshi and stephanie ruhle for "velshi & ruhle." >> thank you. we'll continue the coverage now. good afternoon, everyone. i'm ali velshi. >> i'm stephanie ruhle. it's wednesday, december 12th. let's get smarter. >> we are watching a shot now live of michael cohen getting out of his car. here he comes. he is getting ready to head into court. >> just hearing he was sentenced, michael cohen the president's former attorney, and personal fixer was sentenced to 36 months of prison time. >> a deeply emotional michael cohen breaking down several times. in the course of speaking to judge pawly. when he was speaking about his family. he says that today is the first day of his freedom. that he's been incarcerated mentally, personally since the day he started working for pres